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Wednesday, April 11, 2007

New frontiers in shamelessness

We Democrats should've been unapologetic last week defending Speaker Pelosi because the truth was on our side: She had a right to go. And she was right to go. The coordinated attack on her trip to Syria was as inappropriate as it was irresponsible. And when that happens to one of our leaders, we should all damn well stand up and be counted in our support, or else we hand partisan operatives on the other side a dangerous victory.

So says Sen. John F. Kerry this week (emphasis mine).

By "partisan operatives on the other side," of course, Sen. Kerry means the Bush Administration and its supporters (if only on foreign policy matters; Joseph Lieberman would presumably be included). In Sen. Kerry's eyes, 'tis better to treat with, to fawn over, to snuggle up close and tight with the sworn enemies of the United States than to be seen as supporting the President of the United States (whoever, of whichever party, happens to hold that office at the time). Of course, "hand[ing] ... a dangerous victory" to the Ba'athist or Communist Parties is perfectly fine with the junior senator from Massachusetts.

And indeed, such comments are absolutely unsurprising from a man who, while capitalizing on his fame as a war hero, and while still storing in his closet the uniform of an officer of the United States Navy Reserve, went to Paris — at least once in 1970, and very possibly again in 1971 — to coordinate his antiwar efforts directly with the leaders of the Viet Cong.

He did so while knowing that several hundreds of Americans were being killed by those Viet Cong every month. (There were twice as many American deaths in Vietnam in 1970 alone as there have been in the entire Iraq War; in the two preceding years, there were over ten times as many.) He did so while dozens and dozens of Americans were still prisoners of war of the North Vietnamese, being subjected daily to psychological torture by their cruel captors who knew that evidence of betrayal from their home front would hurt them, scar them, more than broken bones or starvation or electric shocks or dislocated joints. He was so eager to meet with our enemies that he did so while on his honeymoon.

At least the first trip was admitted by Kerry in sworn testimony to the Senate, and it's been documented by such "SwiftBoating enthusiasts" as the NYT and the Boston Globe prior to the 2004 campaign. (During the campaign itself, the MSM conspicuously misreported the facts of the Paris trip(s). And Kerry's pet biographer, Douglas Brinkley, left it out of his book altogether even though he included vivid discussions of the rest of the honeymoon).

And yet I'll bet that if you asked a non-leading, non-multiple choice question, not one in twenty Democratic voters could provide you with a single detail of Kerry's bad faith in Paris. Among the (so far) 162 comments on the Huffpo blog entry on which Kerry made these remarks, the word "Paris" does not yet appear.

Whether the meeting(s) constituted outright treason, deliberate betrayal, or just grossly reckless and eager willingness to be made a Communist tool is still a matter of debate and opinion. Kerry has been largely effective in his three-decade stonewall of the details from which such fine judgments could be made with certainty.

I know John F. Kerry is just a political joke now. I try hard to ignore him; he doesn't deserve any serious attention anymore from anyone. But dammit, the man can still make me very, very angry. Even "Tail-Gunner" Joe McCarthy had a more highly developed sense of shame than John F. Kerry.

Posted by Beldar at 10:05 PM in Global War on Terror, Politics (2007) | Permalink

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Comments

(1) Carol Herman made the following comment | Apr 11, 2007 10:59:12 PM | Permalink

Are you kidding me?

Kerry is the loneliest man in the world! He sold his soul, to a bride worth a fortune. And, you want to see him upset at pelosi?

When he sees pelosi he SEES what could have been his! If Americans didn't hate 'his wife' so much. I'm sure he still thinks he's a hero, ya know?

As to pelosi; someone else blogging comments at Captain's Quarters (Keemo), said it today.

pelosi, after sounding like 100 bag pipes, advertised that she was gonna clean up DC. And, now all you get is the awful sound of out-of-tune bag pipes.

Pelosi didn't even come close to fulfilling her pre-election "promise." Heck, even her rag is still clean and new.

Whatever happened to the blue dogs? Maybe, that's what she meant? She wouldn't let the blue dogs crap on her rugs.

And, if what she was doing was "diplomacy," too bad for her that Tony Blair fell smack on his face!

With the British WAVY. Kids who can't fight. Aren't trained to handle "fireworks." And, saw the overhead hellicopter leaving them in the lurch; as soon as the iranian troubles arrived.

At least you know they put a gal in charge; because she was unlikely to fire her gun. And, there was worry, that these types of uniformed clowns, could very well shoot each other.

For Mel Brooks, it's Hitler in the Producers. I have no idea who is going to script this new one. For Abner Dinnerjacket. And, his chorus line on "visitors" grabbed at sea. Gee. Anybody can be in a soap opera, now.

While John Kerry thought he was so "special." And, now? He's no longer, alone.

Probably the best news since the Swift Boat Vets came along.

(2) stan made the following comment | Apr 12, 2007 8:29:30 AM | Permalink

This is the same John Kerry who sent anti-war audio tapes to the North Vietnamese to be used in the torture of American POWs. The same John who not only perjured himself in slandering the members of our military service, but also suborned the perjury of others in furtherance of his slander. The same John who was part of a group which conspired to assassinate a number of US senators in the Capitol building.

And the same John who said that our abandonment of the South Vietnamese would have little effect on the country other than having to evacuate a few thousand people.

John is now, and was then, a traitor. He is now, and was then, a liar.

And he is now, and was then, a fool whose judgment should never be allowed to affect US policy.

(3) The Drill SGT made the following comment | Apr 12, 2007 9:23:37 AM | Permalink

Back on the first topic, Pelosi. I assume Kerry must classify the Editorial board of the WaPo as a Bush tool?

After all, their critique of Pelosi's trip was scathing.

(4) Other Tom made the following comment | Apr 12, 2007 10:32:20 AM | Permalink

As a Lieutenant, USN I fought in the Mekong Delta River Patrol Force from Sept. '67 to Sept. '68. For nearly forty years I have known John Kerry to be a liar and a fraud. I hate him, and I will hate him until my dying day.

(5) JS made the following comment | Apr 12, 2007 1:48:33 PM | Permalink

Tom,

How can you say that? You know that your shipmate took shrap in the butt plus two other hits. You are just jealous that he only did 3 months to your 12.

(6) TMac made the following comment | Apr 12, 2007 8:00:54 PM | Permalink

Yeah. Kerry was making eggs benedict on his swiftie when he sat on an eggshell and got a piece in his butt.

(7) Bill M made the following comment | Apr 12, 2007 8:24:51 PM | Permalink

Yeah. Kerry was making eggs benedict on his swiftie when he sat on an eggshell and got a piece in his butt.

I think that was Eggs Benedict Arnold, wasn't it?

(8) Karen made the following comment | Apr 13, 2007 10:21:40 AM | Permalink

I would think anyone who pretends to be a patriot would be outraged beyond recovery at the shameful way John Kerry's near spectacular courage in combat has been trashed by the likes of those Swift Boats whores but no, here you all are jumping on that particularly revolting bandwagon.

I spent a year researching this after I heard the first Swift Boats ad in 2004. See, the very suggestion that someone running for president didn't deserve their medals was important enough to me to get to the bottom of it.

I worked through my indignance that a pack of draft dodgers like George Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and the rest of them had the temerity to go after first McCain and then Kerry so they could win an election, truth be damned. I carefully contacted the Pentagon, utilized the FOIA, and read everything I could get my hands on about this.

John Kerry is an authentic war hero. You may not like his politics and that's fine. But that pack of political whores with the cute name, "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" is beyond repulsive. Congratulations for wallowing around in the slime with them. Don't be surprised when you get up with fleas, no apology whatsoever for the mixed metaphor.

(9) Other Tom made the following comment | Apr 13, 2007 11:12:57 AM | Permalink

My post above was under the name "Tom"; Typepad is causing me to show up as "Other Tom" on this occasion, but I'm the same guy.

Karen's research was evidentlly flawed and incomplete. Having been there and done that, I can state unequivocally that not a single naval officer I knew in Vietnam would ever have accepted, let alone sought out, two of the three purple hearts he was awarded. And this conclusion is based upon his own version of the facts.

On the occasion for which he was awarded a Bronze Star, his boat was in company with four others, one of which struck a mine. Three of the four remaining boats came immediately to the aid of the stricken boat; Kerry headed at top speed for the mouth of the river and the open ocean, and only turned around when it was clear that no one was receiving enemy fire.

He was a disgrace to the uniform he wore, and he was and is a fraud and a phony. I am proud to have contributed to the SwiftVets, and I'm glad that we kept him out of the White House. He deserved what he got, and I waited 35 years to give it to him. For those who don't like it, that's tough.

(10) JS made the following comment | Apr 13, 2007 1:15:28 PM | Permalink

Karen,

I have a family member who received a Purple Heart posthumously in WWII.

Recently I happened to see the cover of an Esquire magazine. It showed an Iraq vet holding a single Purple Heart in his hand. He only had one hand. The other arm had been blown off. Also he had no legs. Both of them had been blown off.

You must understand that the Purple Heart is absolutely sacred. Not only because it stands for the sacrifice of the holder, but because often it is the only tangible evidence to family that an unimaginable loss served a purpose and reflected honor and duty.

If you have an ounce of decency and honesty you will address these facts: John Kerry was awarded three Purple Hearts in three months in Vietnam. A Navy policy (fundamentlly sound assuming individual and command integrity) allowed him to leave Vietnam after completion of one third (4 months)of his assigned tour. But there is no Navy record in the public domain that shows he shed a drop of purple blood for any one of his Purple Hearts. This was the essence of Senator Dole's concern during the Presidential campaign.

Senator Dole had no association with the Swiftboat Vets. I have no association with the organization. I know none of them, either personally or by reputation. I do know that the organization formed when Kerry announced for President and that organization went out of existance on Election Day 2004. I do know that the organization had both Republican and Democrat members. I salute and thank them for having the courage of their convictions.

I doubt you will have personal courage to drop your political rant and tell us exactly what your research turned up on Kerry's Purple Hearts, which have to be the foundation of your assertion that he "is an authentic war hero."

(11) Other Tom made the following comment | Apr 13, 2007 7:02:20 PM | Permalink

My passion about this issue is such that I'm not going to let it go so long as this thread is still active.

Apart from the absolutely shameless purple hearts, there is of course the matter of his leading the world to believe that he had tossed all of his medals over the White House fence, only to put them on proud display later in his Senate office, when it made political sense to do so. And there's always "Christmas in Cambodia," an event he celebrated repeatedly over the years, including once on the floor of the Senate (where he declared that it was "seared--seared!" in his memory), and which is known to a certainty to have been an utter fabrication.

Six personal friends of mine, including two naval academy classmates, were imprisoned in Hanoi. One such classmate, Paul Galanti, appeared in one of the SwiftVet commercials--he was the guy who said "Kerry gave them for free what they were using torture to get from us." Galanti hasn't forgotten. Neither have I. We never will, and Karen (and John Kerry) would be well-advised to try to understand why.

(12) itsme made the following comment | Apr 16, 2007 8:51:08 PM | Permalink

Beldar can be quite prolific when he wants to be, that's for sure. For instance, he posted a rather long argument based on the SBVT views of Kerry's Silver Star incident over at another site, and checked back in to respond to other posters:

link
(#53)

Yet when a couple of posters pointed out the basic fallacy of his premise (ie, posts #62,63,77,101, 123, 128 ...) he remained silent.

So, on the outside chance that he simply didn't see those posts, perhaps he'll respond now.

(13) itsme made the following comment | Apr 16, 2007 9:02:48 PM | Permalink

Other Tom: "But there is no Navy record in the public domain that shows he shed a drop of purple blood for any one of his Purple Hearts."

Of course there is. Or do you think you get shrapnel (plus stitches) in your leg without shedding blood?

By the way, not only did every eyewitness on Kerry's boat on March 13 say his arm was bleeding, Jack Chenowith inadvertently confirmed it in his comment in the little video SBVT made, when he said he saw Kerry with a white cloth or t-shirt wrapped around his arm. Unlike most people, he didn't seem to wonder why one would need to wrap one's arm if it hadn't been bleeding.

(14) itsme made the following comment | Apr 16, 2007 9:13:23 PM | Permalink

Other Tom: "Apart from the absolutely shameless purple hearts, there is of course the matter of his leading the world to believe that he had tossed all of his medals over the White House fence, only to put them on proud display later in his Senate office, when it made political sense to do so."

Please show us exactly where Kerry said he tossed all of his medals over the Capitol fence (it wasn't the White House, by the way). Medals and not ribbons.

Then please provide a link showing that he "put them on proud display in his Senate office" in contradiction to Douglas Brinkley's account that he actually keeps them in a desk drawer at home.

(15) itsme made the following comment | Apr 16, 2007 9:15:09 PM | Permalink

Link to Brinkley article referenced above:

Brinkley article

(16) itsme made the following comment | Apr 16, 2007 9:18:53 PM | Permalink

"This is the same John Kerry who sent anti-war audio tapes to the North Vietnamese to be used in the torture of American POWs. ...
Posted by: stan on Apr 12, 2007 "


Link please.

(17) itsme made the following comment | Apr 16, 2007 9:30:50 PM | Permalink

"And there's always "Christmas in Cambodia," an event he celebrated repeatedly over the years, including once on the floor of the Senate (where he declared that it was 'seared--seared!' in his memory), and which is known to a certainty to have been an utter fabrication. - Other Tom "

Nope.

Wikipedia

(18) itsme made the following comment | Apr 16, 2007 9:39:18 PM | Permalink

Sorry, I should have attributed the comment re Kerry's PH to JS, not Other Tom.

(19) itsme made the following comment | Apr 16, 2007 10:12:38 PM | Permalink

>>>One such classmate, Paul Galanti, appeared in one of the SwiftVet commercials--he was the guy who said "Kerry gave them for free what they were using torture to get from us." - Other Tom <<<<

He also said he heard a recording of John Kerry's 1971 testimony over a loudspeaker while he was a prisoner. Aside from the fact that the North Vietnamese must have been pretty technically advanced to get a recording of an American TV broadcast, no other POW to my knowledge has ever made such a claim. As a matter of fact, Phil Butler, who was a POW for nearly 8 years, says it is absolutely not true:

"During this time I shared a 40-man cell with Ken Cordier, and in the adjoining cell were Paul Galanti and Jim Warner who recently were active in the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth negative campaign. Contrary to statements by these men, none of us ever heard about John Kerry's testimony or statements against the Vietnam War while we were in captivity. I remember. I was there."

Military dot com

It also kinda makes you wonder why he never mentioned this once he came home...I mean, another Navy guy speaking out for the enemy?! Certainly the activities of the VVAW were still known at the time he returned.

Kerry's antiwar background and testimony was never a secret, yet Galanti didn't make a peep when Kerry was put in charge of the committee investigating POWs and MIAs.

In fact, he waited until 2004 to speak out against this man who had "betrayed" them. Just before he got appointed to an advisory position in the Bush administration.

ABC News pickup

(20) Other Tom made the following comment | Apr 17, 2007 10:25:10 AM | Permalink

Kerry's medals: I have nowhere asserted that Kerry "said" he tossed all of his medals over the fence (whether the fence was at the White House or elsewhere I will leave it to others to debate). What I do assert is that Kerry willfully created the impression that the medals were his, knew that others had inferred that they were, and remained silent on the issue until it became known that he had them in his office and the inconsistency was pointed out during the campaign. During the campaign he falsely asserted that there was no difference between the ribbons (which I could purchase at the Navy Exchange this afternoon) and the medals. He went on to say that the medals he tossed belonged to another man who had asked him to do so, a fact he had never asserted until he was confronted. Whether his medals were on proud display in his office continuously, or only continually (when he broke them out to show to visitors to his Senate office) is a matter that seems too trivial to warrant serious discussion.

Christmas in Cambodia: I don't know quite what to make of Itsme's "nope," nor do I understand my contention to be disputed by the Wikipedia item to which he links. Is he suggesting that Kerry did not repeatedly make the claim?

Let us try this:

"On more than one occasion, I like Martin Sheen in 'Apocalypse Now,' took my patrol boat into Cambodia. In fact I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost being killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real."
Kerry, Boston Herald, October 14, 1979 (reviewing Apocalypse Now)

His comments on the floor of the Senate are quite unambiguous, and it is not seriously disputed that he made them.

Or is Itsme contending that Kerry actually was in Cambodia? Not one witness has confirmed that he ever was, including those of his crew who supported him in his campaign. I know from my own first-hand experience that the Swift Boats were utterly unsuited for any covert mission, and the idea that a Lt(jg.) would be detailed for such a mission without the knowledge of anyone in his chain of command is absurd. He has not identified a single person who he claims will verify his claim, and none has done so.

As for what Paul Galanti heard, it certainly would not surprise me to learn that he heard Kerry’s words being read by another. I do not know how Phil Butler purports to know what others did or did not hear. Paul Galanti and many others have been condemning Kerry for over thirty years; it should come as no surprise that their condemnations of him only received widespread publicity when Kerry became a presidential contender. I note that Itsme does not dispute, because he cannot dispute, that Kerry spoke the shameful words, which seems to me to be the salient point.


(21) Other Tom made the following comment | Apr 17, 2007 10:32:52 AM | Permalink

More on the question of Kerry in Cambodia:

"'The banks of the [Rach Giang Thanh River] whistled by as we churned out mile after mile at full speed. On my left were occasional open fields that allowed us a clear view into Cambodia. At some points, the border was only fifty yards away and it then would meander out to several hundred or even as much as a thousand yards away, always making one wonder what lay on the other side.' His curiosity was never satisfied, because this entry was from Kerry's final mission."
From "Tour of Duty," as recounted in the WaPo August 24, 2004

Those are Kerry's own words, quoted by his biographer. I will leave it to the reader to decide whether they were written by a man who had previously been in Cambodia.

(22) Other Tom made the following comment | Apr 17, 2007 11:02:20 AM | Permalink

Let us continue with more Kerry fantasies about Cambodia, since it's so much fun to do so:

"'We were told, `Just go up there and do your patrol. Everybody was over there (in Cambodia). Nobody thought twice about it,' Kerry said. One of the missions, which Kerry, at the time, was ordered not to discuss, involved taking CIA operatives into Cambodia to search for enemy enclaves. 'I can remember wondering, `If you're going to go, what happens to you,' Kerry said."
Kerry; John Diamond, AP. June 25, 1992

Where are these CIA operatives today? Is there not a single one who will step forward to corroborate Kerry's story? Where is "everybody" who was over there? What was Kerry doing on the other "missions" that did not involve CIA operatives? Why has not one single Swift Boat or PBR crewman come forward to talk about missions to Cambodia?

(23) Other Tom made the following comment | Apr 17, 2007 11:06:52 AM | Permalink

But wait, there's more! This time, it's running guns into Cambodia:

“Sen. John Kerry made his first forays into Cambodia during the Vietnam War as a Navy lieutenant on clandestine missions to deliver weapons to anticommunist forces.”
Kevin Whitelaw, U.S. News & World Report, May 8, 2000. On August 17, 2004 Whitelaw confirmed to Hugh Hewitt that his source was Kerry, who he said told him “exactly that.”

(24) Other Tom made the following comment | Apr 17, 2007 11:14:33 AM | Permalink

The careful reader will conclude that I never tire of Kerry's fantasies. Here is a dissection of a few from his days aboard USS Gridley:

Here are the comments of Phil Carter, RD2, on some of the items in the TOUR OF DUTY coverage of Kerry's time on GRIDLEY. He urges everyone to read it for themselves.
"I was an E-5 radarman on the USS GRIDLEY and was onboard from 1965 until May of 1968. My principal role in 67 and 68 was to prepare intelligence information to brief the rescue helo pilots and the ship’s officers. I received a commendation from CINCPACFLT for this activity. I stood quite a few CIC watches with Ensign Kerry where we discussed many things, including the war. I was college educated, had traveled extensively in Europe before the Navy and spoke French, so there was some commonality despite my being enlisted. By that time, I was on my 3rd cruise and against the way the war was being waged. He was not, as I recall.

"I am a registered independent and have no axe to grind with him. I gave him a reasonably large campaign contribution in the mid 1990’s and visited with him for about 30 minutes in an alcove outside the Senate chambers in 1996 when I was in DC on business.
* * * *
"4. Later on page 87 Kerry talks about Olongapo in the Philippines. He talks about bloated corpses floating in the river and starving women with babies dying of malnutrition. Now Olongapo was a wild and wooly town that existed solely for the entertainment of the US Navy, but in over three years of calling there, I never saw a single instance of either thing happening. Kerry uncovered this in his first visit. If this was from his letters home then he was certainly writing for dramatic effect. Balderdash.

" 5. The trip to Danang – GRIDLEY went into Danang for briefings before going to Northern SAR. This section is so full of hyperbole that the urge to giggle is almost uncontrollable. 'The panic and pressure onboard GRIDLEY, strapping on a .45, wondering if I would have to use it, B-52’s howling overhead.' A B-52 over Danang would have been so high that only contrails would have been visible, cloud cover permitting. David Simons confirmed my recollection that during our brief stay in Danang Harbor, the sky was overcast to the point of being ominous.

"More seriously, no one can remember John Kerry going ashore. I was part of the shore party that went to Monkey Mountain. We were taken in a screened in truck (to protect against grenades being tossed in) and made to unload our .45’s. The driver said that he did not want us newbies to shoot anyone by accident.

"Neither Commander Kelly nor LCDR Rueckert (Kerry’s immediate boss) can recall approving a trip ashore for Ensign Kerry. The author uses remarks of David Simons IC2 as a lead in to the Danang section. I spoke to David and he has no personal knowledge of Kerry going ashore at all. He did talk to a researcher and made some generic remarks about Danang but had never discussed Danang with Kerry. He recalls arguing with the researcher because he tried to put the words 'cowboy' in his mouth, which ended up in the book.

"There is no mystery about the 'gruesome site of a pile of dead VC.' We saw no sign of anything like this. However, our escort to Monkey Mountain did tell us how the VC bodies were stacked up on the LZ’s after the TET Offensive, which had been several months before. Ensign Kerry would have been told this story by members of the shore party.

"If, indeed, he got to the pier, because he was in charge of the motor whaleboat, it certainly would not have been within his purview to wander Danang, eating dog meat and drinking beer in a bar (under arms). It also seems amazing that he had all these observations on Vietnam in such a brief visit."

http://home.nycap.rr.com/pwcarter/the%20kerry%20page.html

(25) Other Tom made the following comment | Apr 17, 2007 1:05:27 PM | Permalink

Ah, yes. Here our intrepid hero writes to his girlfriend:

"Judy Darling,
"There are so many ways this letter could become a bitter diatribe and go rumbling off into irrational nothings.... I feel so bitter and angry and everywhere around me there is nothing but violence and war and gross insensitivity. I am really very frightened to be honest because when the news [of the combat death of his college friend, Dick Pershing] sunk in I had no alternatives but to carry on in the face of trivia that forced me to build a horrible protective screen around myself....

"The world I'm a part of out there is so very different from anything you, I, or our close friends can imagine. It's fitted with primitive survial, with destruction of an endless dying seemingly pointless nature and forces one to grow up in a fast — no holds barred fashion. In the small time I have been gone, does it seem strange to say that I feel as though I have seen several years experience go by.... No matter [where] one is — no matter what job — you do not and cannot forget that you are at war and that the enemy is ever present — that anyone could at some time for the same stupid irrational something that stole Persh be gone tomorrow."

Kerry to his girlfriend in February, 1968. At that time he was aboard USS Gridley at Pearl Harbor. He had not been within 5,000 miles of any "violence and war," and the "ever present" enemy was many time zones away, and on the other side of the international date line. Are there any who still doubt that this dreamer is more full of s**t than a Christmas turkey?

(26) Other Tom made the following comment | Apr 17, 2007 5:36:44 PM | Permalink

Those who are waiting for me to stop setting the record straight on this bombastic fraud are waiting in vain. Let us now review Mr. Kerry's remarks as quoted in the Boston Globe, May 18, 1996:

“'In a sense, there's nothing that says more about your career than when you fought, where you fought and how you fought,' Kerry said.

“'If you wind up being less than what you’re pretending to be, there is a major confrontation with value and self-esteem and your sense of how others view you.'”

Just so, John. Just so. And I eagerly await further commentary from the hapless "Karen" and the equally hapless "Itsme." Both have hitched their wagons to a flawed, dishonest and dishonorable star, and are bound to suffer for it accordingly, even as they did in November of 2004. If he raises his scumbag head again, I will happily go on record again to expose his self-aggrandizing lies.

(27) Bingo made the following comment | Apr 17, 2007 5:41:21 PM | Permalink

"So, on the outside chance that he simply didn't see those posts, perhaps he'll respond now."

I doubt it...feeding ignorant, obdurate trolls is a fool's game.

Why doncha go back to your Wiki Swiftvet (cough)article. There's still a few comments favorable to the Swiftvets that you and your cabal haven't quite managed to "consensus" out yet.

And then you have the chutzpa to come in here and cite your own wiki drivel. Amazing.

Here's a clue eecee (oops, I mean itsme)...when historians (and I mean "historians", not political propagandist-wannabes like yourself) get around to writing the John Kerry/Swiftvet story, it will bear little resemblance that tripe you've amassed at Wikipedia...and they won't be researching it in the John Fraud Kerry Almost-Presidential Library.

(28) Other Tom made the following comment | Apr 17, 2007 5:46:46 PM | Permalink

Here's a bit more from Paul Galanti, writing in 1998:

"I experienced over a year of solitary confinement with the hours broken only by infrequent communications (tapping or signing) with other Americans and a quarterly, miserable re-introduction to the 'Camp Regulations for Captured American Criminals.' A twice-daily English language broadcast provided a dose of the war as seen by the communists (and their too-many American supporters), and provided deep insight into a government of lies, deceit and perfidy. Theirs, not ours, or at least that's what we thought at the time.

"I lived in about 10 camps scattered all over North Vietnam--several in Hanoi, the capital; a couple in the countryside, including the Son Tay camp raided by U.S. Special Forces in November 1970; and one near Lang Son, a few kilometers from the Chinese border."

Does Phil Butler claim to have been in an adjacent cell during Paul's period of solitary confinement? Was he his next-door neighbor at all ten camps? Does he claim to have heard all of the same twice-daily English-language broadcasts heard by Galanit? Just askin', Itsme, just askin'.

(29) Other Tom made the following comment | Apr 17, 2007 6:44:37 PM | Permalink

"Or do you think you get shrapnel (plus stitches) in your leg without shedding blood?"

As Itsme has since noted, I never claimed that Kerry did not shed blood. On the other hand, the blood that he shed from the shrapnel in his leg, on at least one occasion, was caused by the damn fool dropping a hand grenade into a pile of rice, and then failing to run away fast enough. Along with the shrapnel he got multiple grains of rice that had to be plucked out of his ass. No one, including Kerry, claims that he was engaged with the enemy at the time. I am aware of no record establishing whether the purple heart that he was awarded on that day was awarded for that self-inflicted wound (the second of his four-month stint), or for whatever was the arm injury he sustained as his boat turned at high speed after first fleeing the scene at which a companion boat was stricken after a mine was detonated beneath it.

(30) JS made the following comment | Apr 17, 2007 9:16:10 PM | Permalink

Its simple, Itsme:

You want to be president? Then just put your purple heart award letters and the accompanying medical record entries out there. They exist. Give them to the Globe, put paid to the swiftboat vets, and start politicking against your opponent. Why is this so difficult? Given the highest office in the land, why didn't this happen? Ans: There was no blood? A contusion (bruise), yes. He fell down when the cox gunned it. Shrap in the ass? Yes. Can't go there, because it has to be enemy action, and JFK was screwing around (self inflicted, per other Tom). Hence the disrespect of his fellow officers.

Here is the irony. John Kerry did beach his boat as a result of an ambush. He did go ashore and pursue a B40 gunner. He did shoot and kill that VC, thereby protecting his men and boat. He legitimately earned a combat medal for doing so.

Now for the hypothetical. From that point forward, he continues to do his job, but he doesn't earn any more medals, he does his 1 year tour and goes home with no Purple Hearts. Result: His fellow SwiftBoat Naval Officers form a Kerry for President Campaign, and Kerry is elected, handsomely, President.

But the hypothetical didn't happen. And because of the SwiftBoat Vets, Amercian got introduced to the real John Kerry.

Which by the way, was providentially on display recently when he again flew his true colors: The military is for illiterates and saps.

(31) itsme made the following comment | Apr 26, 2007 11:48:20 PM | Permalink

Other Tom, let me see if I can wade through some of those massive posts.

What I do assert is that Kerry willfully created the impression that the medals were his, knew that others had inferred that they were, and remained silent on the issue until it became known that he had them in his office and the inconsistency was pointed out during the campaign. During the campaign he falsely asserted that there was no difference between the ribbons (which I could purchase at the Navy Exchange this afternoon) and the medals. He went on to say that the medals he tossed belonged to another man who had asked him to do so, a fact he had never asserted until he was confronted. Whether his medals were on proud display in his office continuously, or only continually (when he broke them out to show to visitors to his Senate office) is a matter that seems too trivial to warrant serious discussion.


And yet here you are discussing it. The fact is he wasn't displaying his medals anywhere.

Next, as far as I know, the whole ribbon/medal toss issue was not an issue until the anti-Kerryites made it one in 2004. Then he responded.


Christmas in Cambodia: I don't know quite what to make of Itsme's "nope," nor do I understand my contention to be disputed by the Wikipedia item to which he links. Is he suggesting that Kerry did not repeatedly make the claim?

The "nope" was to your claim that it was an "utter fabrication." Yes, read the article. Or don't. I have the feeling you're not too concerned with rational investigation.

Hmmm, blather ...rant ....blather...already answered ... more blather ...so this is your idea of "shredding," huh? Ooh-kay.

Moving along...

As for what Paul Galanti heard, it certainly would not surprise me to learn that he heard Kerry’s words being read by another.

Galanti claims he heard Kerry's actual voice over the PA system. Right down to his pronunciation of "Genghis Khan."

I do not know how Phil Butler purports to know what others did or did not hear.

If someone claims he heard it over the camp PA system, that's pretty easy to know or not know.

As to your question about where they both were, Galanti claimed he heard Kerry's speech while at the Hanoi Hilton, which is where Phil Butler was as well.

Galanti article

Butler article


Paul Galanti and many others have been condemning Kerry for over thirty years; it should come as no surprise that their condemnations of him only received widespread publicity when Kerry became a presidential contender.


Can you show us where they claim to have publicly condemned him during those thirty years?


I am aware of no record establishing whether the purple heart that he was awarded on that day was awarded for that self-inflicted wound (the second of his four-month stint), or for whatever was the arm injury he sustained as his boat turned at high speed after first fleeing the scene at which a companion boat was stricken after a mine was detonated beneath it.


Well Tom, the fact that you simply MUST use the SBVT-approved term "fleeing" tells me all I need to know about your interest in rational investigation. Even Larry Thurlow refused to use that word when he was coached to do so in the first SBVT ad.

You should go on down and search the archives to your heart's content. Who knows what you might turn up with regard to the Purple Heart recommendation. As it is, neither the Bronze Star recommendation nor the citation mention anything but the arm injury, which indicates that Kerry did not tell them the other injury was sustained on the boat. But it's almost irrelevant because the arm injury would qualify for the Purple Heart. And that was his third, not the second Purple Heart.

(32) itsme made the following comment | Apr 26, 2007 11:50:35 PM | Permalink

JS said:

Now for the hypothetical. From that point forward, he continues to do his job, but he doesn't earn any more medals, he does his 1 year tour and goes home with no Purple Hearts. Result: His fellow SwiftBoat Naval Officers form a Kerry for President Campaign, and Kerry is elected, handsomely, President.

But the hypothetical didn't happen. And because of the SwiftBoat Vets, Amercian got introduced to the real John Kerry.


You left out one huge part of that hypothetical: (1) Kerry goes home and keeps his mouth shut; (2) Kerry goes home and very publicly protests the war.

Which do you honestly think resulted in a smear campaign 30 years later?

Silly question.

(33) JS made the following comment | Apr 27, 2007 7:01:48 PM | Permalink

Itsme,

If your question is, if Kerry hadn't done what he did when he got home, would the SwiftBoats formed an anti-Kerry for President association, I don't know. It might be a 50-50 call.

I do believe if he had served out his tour, come home with just his combat medal from killing the VC, put his service records completely in the public domain (which under my hypothetical would not include any medical records in support of PH's), a SwiftBoat anti-Kerry Group (if it had formed) would not have gotten nearly as much traction or would have died from the news after about 2 months and Kerry would be President.

But his manufacturing 3 bogus PH's and bolting Vietnam with only a third of his obligation complete (something I don't think any other officer or enlisted did), with the result that he couldn't release all of his sevice records, kept the issue on the ther front page right up to Election Day. If you recall in the last week of the election there was even the story that he might have received less than an Honorable Discharge (something like that). If that didn't happen, or the PH's are legit, fully 100% disclose and its less than a 24 hour news cycle.!

Why didn't that happen?

Here's a question for you: If you provide information about someone in a political campaign that is true, accurate, documented, but derogatory, is that a smear?

(34) itsme made the following comment | May 6, 2007 10:12:48 PM | Permalink

>>>I do believe if he had served out his tour, come home with just his combat medal from killing the VC, put his service records completely in the public domain (which under my hypothetical would not include any medical records in support of PH's), a SwiftBoat anti-Kerry Group (if it had formed) would not have gotten nearly as much traction or would have died from the news after about 2 months and Kerry would be President.<<<<


If so, he would be the first presidential candidate that I have ever heard of who put his confidential service records "in the public domain." And why should he, absent (1) a biographer requesting them; (2) a credible question being raised about that record.

Of course no such question was raised during the prior 20 years of political campaigning. The only thing that came close was the article about his Silver Star in 1996, which Hoffmann, Elliott, Zumwalt and various others personally answered.

>>>But his manufacturing 3 bogus PH's and bolting Vietnam with only a third of his obligation complete (something I don't think any other officer or enlisted did), with the result that he couldn't release all of his sevice records, kept the issue on the ther front page right up to Election Day.<<,


Well up until just now we were talking in hypotheticals. Now we're talking about your own personal opinion.

>>>If you recall in the last week of the election there was even the story that he might have received less than an Honorable Discharge (something like that). If that didn't happen, or the PH's are legit, fully 100% disclose and its less than a 24 hour news cycle.!<<<

Why yes, and there were probably people claiming that George Bush's body double had replaced him in office four years earlier...so what? The fact is that if a single critic had actually read and researched the discharge paperwork they had access to, that ludicrous claim about his discharge would not have come up in the first place. As a matter of fact, someone who bothered to find the original regulation that was cited on the discharge papers posted it right at this very website. Notice it did not come from SBVT...nor did any other original document*. Why didn't THAT happen?


Here's a question for you: If you lie, spin, and misrepresent a person's life and character, is that a smear?

*The AAR for the Silver Star incident came from someone who went down to the archives and found it, not the SBVT. Great use of their $27 million, eh?

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